Join hosts Irvin, Sam, Sierra, and our guest Tiffany as they discuss the missing characters from the Battle of Hogwarts.
In this episode:
- A trivia question for you to play along!
- I told you we should have used Floo Powder!
- Leave the Ford Anglia alone!
- We’re putting creatures inside other creatures
- We have many theories about Amos Diggory… none were right
- “I need a cat gun!”
- The Death Eaters must be mildly inconvenienced!
- “I have not been turned into a cow, can I stay?”
- Harry really should have sent out save-the-dates
- The parents aren’t parenting enough
Resources:
- PUFFS play
- Pince and Prince by Irvin from HP Lexicon
Pub’s Jukebox:
I Was There by The Moaning Myrtles
The most enjoyable episode of this podcast so far! Great episode to all! Sorry in advance for the long comment.
Two thoughts about Umbridge being the most mentioned character not at the Battle of Hogwarts. The first thought is, I’m not a huge fan of the epilogue we received in the books, one of the few nitpicks I have regarding the original 7 novels. I wish it would have been replaced with a 1 year later story outlining the rebuilding of wizarding society after Voldy’s defeat. Rather than telling us, “Kingsley was named temporary Minister of Magic” show us how the Ministry rebuilt itself and rebranded to a strong magical government that it supposedly became under Kingsley. (And I would have loved to see Umbridge’s trial!) My second thought is, if Umbridge were there, would she take a cowardly approach and just flee? Or would she fight on the side of the Death Eaters? I have a hard time picturing her fighting alongside giants and dark creatures, though if her beloved Minister was fighting for Voldy I find it equally as difficult to imagine her not using that as an opportunity to butter him up a bit. Is there a universe where her hatred of half-breeds makes her fight alongside Harry instead of Voldy? Doubtful, unless maybe her Minister also turns to Harry’s side.
While we’re on the topic of the Ministry, I can’t wait for the Fudge episode! I am fascinated by everything having to do with wizarding politics and am in the process of writing a fanfiction that is essentially rewriting the series as if Fudge believed Harry and DD at the end of GoF and took immediate action. Some big plot points so far are: Umbridge becomes Azkaban Warden instead of the DADA teacher, Tonks is DADA teacher, and Fudge recruits the Department of Mysteries to create a project that would make Tom Riddle a Muggle, essentially taking his magic away–something Dumbledore warns him against, but he does it anyway. It’s still a work in progress, but I’m just about done with Order of the Phoenix! If anyone is interested, I’ll post it.
It is interesting that Goblet of Fire seems to be the book that has the most “uncashed checks” for characters as Irvin said, though for plot reasons it makes sense. The international wizards were assured for over a year by Fudge that Voldemort was not a threat. I doubt Scrimgeour did anything to seriously correct that assumption. And obviously Thicknesse wouldn’t say or do anything to persuade them to come and fight his master. The goblins were anti-wizard after Ludo Bagman ripped them off.
Shoutout to my man Horace Slughorn, one of my favorite underappreciated characters! Typical Slytherin, realizing you’re outnumbered and outmatched so instead of bravely (foolishly?) staying and fighting in a losing battle, you play to your strengths. My headcanon is that Slughorn went and gathered all of the old members of the “Slug Club” to help in the battle and they are all present with the villagers of Hogsmeade and the families of those who had stayed to fight. Would they have won without him? Perhaps, but him leaving the Battle and gathering reinforcements certainly helped turn the tide the way of the good guys!
Wow! I am loving this whole comment.
First, thanks for enjoying this episode so much! It certainly was a fun time while recording and I am glad that comes across!
Next, lets get into this Umbridge situation. I completely agree that it would have been much more interesting to see a governmental rebuild, especially if it came complete with an Umbridge trial. I feel like it could have been a quick one. Harry Potter, the Boy Who Lived, and Died, and Lived Again shows the back of his hand and the memory of getting the scar and BOOM. Guilty. Now, had she been at the battle… that would have been interesting to see. I feel that she would still be fighting on Voldemort’s side, more because she doesn’t have a particular issue with dark creatures, but more those who “claim to have near human intelligence”. She has no issues working with dementors (siccing them on Harry, stocking them in the courtroom, etc.), and giants themselves are a completely separate entity. She only seems to take umbrage (heehee) when they mix into the wizarding population (like Hagrid). Once the centaurs come running out of the forest, however, I believe she would go screaming for the hills!
Your fanfiction sounds very interesting! As long as you promise to finish it and not leave me hanging, I would love to read it!
#whatwasthepointofgof will become trending after this episode haha. But for real, the logic within the story does make sense as you say, especially with the Ministers doing negative helping the entire time, but from a story telling standpoint it certainly is frustrating! I can understand the government wanting to handle things in-house as it were, but it didn’t do them any favors at the end having to be saved by literal children and teenagers…
I am a big fan of your Slughorn headcanon here. Maybe he adopted Krum into the Slug Club and got word to him during the battle and that’s why Krum is late, waiting at the gate with his own army! One can only dream. On the other hand, while Slughorn is well-versed in receiving small favors from his Club, I don’t know if “come and risk your life in this fight” is a good way to cash in on helping them make good connections. Maybe asking a little much? But it would depend on the general population’s heroism and sentiment about the current goings-on which we don’t get quite enough of in my opinion.
Seconding what Sierra said, that’s an excellent comment all the way through! Glad you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed recording this one!
I want this fanfiction very much, please post it!
I agree with you that the Epilogue underwhelmed… I’ve kinda come around on the topic, because I actively hated it at first, but I only ever got as far as acceptance, never actually liking it.
Fascinating question, what Umbridge would do if she found herself in the battle! I think I’m in agreement with Sierra – Umbridge could live with working with fully separate creatures like giants and dementors, it’s the halfbreeds she’d more strenuously object to.
More to the point, rather like the dementors, Voldemort “can offer [her] much more scope for her powers and her pleasures.” Umbridge, above all, is a control freak and a sadist – we see her thriving under Voldemort’s ministry. I think as long as she got to impose her will on the Hogwartians and hurt them with impunity – especially all the students who gave her grief two years earlier – she would be perfectly able to reconcile her allegiance to whoever offered her the chance.
Though I’ll also note I have a hard time picturing her actually in battle, she does not seem to be a particularly good witch. I think if she were there, she’d be put in charge of any prisoners the Death Eaters took (ie. Hagrid in the forest) rather than being on the frontlines.
Yeah that’s where I’m at too, I’m not sure she would actually actively fight in the battle.
I meant to bring this up in my original comment, but I found it interesting that neither side actually takes prisoners (not counting Hagrid). Voldemort is so distracted by the possible loss of his Horcruxes, but you would think one of the Death Eaters would’ve mentioned it as a possibility. Snape in an effort to try and save some of the teachers/students could have recommended holding prisoners in lieu of killing everyone. Though again, Snape is fairly distracted this whole time as he tries to get Harry his memories.
On a side note, and I meant to ask this in the original comment, but do we think that Pius Thicknesse ordered the entire Ministry of Magic to the battle to fight on Voldemort’s side? If the Minister himself is fighting, who’s to say that he can’t command the entire Auror Office, Department of Magical Law Enforcement, etc. to come and join them?
I think there probably were prisoners being taken, at least on the Hogwartian side, and we don’t see them… As for the Death Eaters, I think it’s too much hassle to keep prisoners (given they’re the invading force) and they’d be way less motivated to do so.
Lupin says that the Ministry and Death Eaters are one and the same in DH. I don’t think Pius literally mobilized the entire Ministry because there wasn’t time… lots of laywizards were probably going to sleep, so even if they got an owl saying, “We’re battling for Lord Voldemort and attacking Hogwarts, please come and join us in killing teenagers!” most of them would go “Naaaaaah.” And it would be very hard to dress it up as part of their regular Ministry duties to attack Hogwarts as part of Voldemort’s army; I think the fear would be that they come down on the side of the Hogwartians, especially if they have kids at Hogwarts. So I’m gonna say no, the Ministry of Magic largely sat this one out.
I agree also: Umbridge is fine with non-humans – or non-(pureblooded-)wizards for that matter – as long as they “know their place” (and I felt kinda icky just writing that…).
This is very much a work in progress…but here is what I have so far: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y5tKN5ig7fio3aw3gNARAOCJ6ofvM_utcVHfbIiZVZw/edit?usp=sharing
It is too bad that the students of Beauxbatons and Durmstrang never make a reappearance in the series. I think back to Dumbledore paying special attention to the Durmstrang students after Karkaroff fled. It would’ve been a nice moment, having some of them remember Dumbledore’s kindness even in that moment and joining the Hogwarts army at the eleventh hour.
I think Slughorn *could* do it, but he would have to be very persuasive. He would probably need to reassure the Slug Club members that there was a good chance of defeating Voldy for good if they rejoin the battle. I’m sure not everyone agreed to it, but I’d like to think some of them agreed.
I finally got around to reading this fic, and it was very intriguing! I like the competent Fudge, and am very intrigued by Umbridge searching for a more straightforward outlet for her villainy.
As a fan of Potterless, the answer is obviously Ludo Bagman.
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Kudos for the “Ghosts” reference. If only the Hogwarts ghosts had powers like that (one of them could be in charge of poking the mimbletonia). Walking through a ghost would be even more distracting if it also made a terrible smell. Or you could just make all the Death Eater’s high as hippogriff balls.
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It would be fun to have the dragons return (as per the trope mentioned), but more likely Norberta and the horntail would fight over who gets to gather Harry under their wings. And both lose to Molly.
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Sam’s boggart is the sarlacc, got it.
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Mundungus could be Thénardier, but I like to think he also has a bit of CMOT Dibbler in him. When not looting, he’d be on the sidelines, selling sausages-inna-bun.
Glad I’m no the only fan of Ghosts around here! So followup question: what’s the ghostly power of the five ghosts we know at Hogwarts?
I’m more of a fan by association – I don’t mind watching when someone else is, but I’m not actively following it.
What are the ghosts’ special abilities? Hmmm… complaining, mostly.
(Oh, you were asking seriously… sorry!)
Peeves has got the “physical interaction” part covered, so I’d lean more esoteric.
Toads could also get the Death Eaters high (see discussion of ghost-powers), but they’d have to persuade the DE’s to lick their backs.
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And after Mrs Norris and Crookshanks run off together, Filch, sad and lonely, breaks into song (“Memory, all alone in the moonlight…”)
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I completely agree with Sierra – showing the families and friends is so much easier in a visual medium. In text, you’d have to name and/or describe them in more words than is warranted for the purpose. And you don’t want to be introducing new names in the back half of the last chapter of a 7-book series.
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Wands and wandlore would be an interesting topic. Lots of people seem to dislike Harry breaking the Elder Wand in the movie (or at least without repairing his one first), but I think it was the right choice, especially given the movies didn’t give the same amount of focus to wands as the books.
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I have lots of thoughts/questions about the imperius. Does it work like hypnosis? Can it (to use a computing metaphor) run in the background? How much does the caster need to stay focused to maintain it (what happens when they’re asleep, for example)?