Join hosts Aureo, Sam, Sophia, and guest Lorrie Kim as they discuss the mothers and mother figures of the Harry Potter series.
Trigger warning: This episode contains conversations about abuse, self-harm, and rape.
In this episode:
- Lily aka the reason we have these books
- Is Molly a good surrogate mum?
- Voldemort’s sex life – yes, we went there
- Petunia confuses us
- Motherhood is hard
- Eileen moved to a tropical island and lives her best life
- Wizards are all Indiana Jones
- Nagini – a good mother?
- The Longbottoms are a 1-2 punch
- We’re on eye level with Hagrid today
Resources:
- Snape: The Definitive Analysis by Lorrie Kim
- Arthur Weasley: Harry’s Most Underappreciated Father Figure? by Sophia
The Pub’s Jukebox: “Pandora” by Hawthorn & Holly
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode and honestly found the discussion on Voldy’s (non)sex life refreshing. Lorrie Kim’s consideration on Molly’s defeat of Bellatrix through pure emotion was both insightful, clever, and tear jerking to me!
I’d love to do an ace/aro episode (arguably I am super biased as an aroace myself) but I am not sure we have enough to talk about. But then from experience, we always do find stuff to talk about for 2 hours 😀
Characters that come to mind aside from Voldy, are Charlie Weasley and Dumbledore. Dumbledore is likely somewhere on the a-spectrum, probably more a demi/gray, but would have to do more research. The a-spectrum has a lot more sub-labels.
Yeah, it seems like the discussion would be “Is Voldy ace, inhuman, or is Cursed Child canon? Also, is Charlie/Norbert canon?” Maybe not enough for a full episode, though perhaps a fun patreon bonus discussion!
My reading of Dumbledore was always that he was celibate, not asexual – he was burned so badly by the Grindelwald thing that he just never went down that road again.
Maybe enough inspiration for a broader episode on sexual orientation/queerness in the series. But on the other hand, given recent events, that might get a little too … political. I’m personally super curious of if/how they’ll represent Dumbledore’s and maybe even Charlie’s queerness in the new tv series. Another episode idea – the new tv series !!! I’d love to hear the host’s thoughts and opinions.
I can sum up my views about the tv show this way: I absolutely everything about it
But I know the others are more open to it, so we’ll see 🙂
I think you’re missing a word there, somewhere, but the vibe comes across.
Other people have pointed out that it (the tv series) feels like a desperate last-throw-of-the-dice from WB given they aren’t making a lot from Potter at the moment (FB movies have bombed, games come out too slowly, etc).
I had a very similar emotional reaction when listening to Lorrie analyze that scene!
Love it! 3B has become such a wonderful part of my weekend. Thank you.
Augusta’s unkindness (cruelty) to Neville and potentially Alice stem from her deep love for her son and the heartbreak of being a devoted mother. She is an example of how loving mothers, good people, can fail to recognize and nurture children for who they are, and instead try to raise children to fit some preconceived ideal or to meet the parent’s own expectations and needs. Forcing her grandson to use his father’s wand says it all. When Neville finally is given his own wand, he grows into a hero in his own right, not an inadequate imitation of his missing father.
Augusta and Minerva, two names with similar classical implications, were totally contemporaries! I’d love to know that story!
Excellent point! I’m not a parent myself, but being in the Queer bubble I do come across this dilemma, where parents are disappointed when their children come out to them because it doesn’t fit their plan for their child’s life. But this can be true for so many things, like choosing the “right” career or partner.
I always hoped that Neville’s relationship with Augusta would improve post-Battle of Hogwarts, once she starts to see Neville more for who he is as a person. I’m sure it doesn’t hurt that he was such a crucial part of Voldy’s downfall.
Aw, that’s so nice to hear! Thanks!
Yes, you’re right about Augusta’s blind spots. We see a good bit of the (very common) scenario of parents struggling against kids breaking away from their ideals – think Molly and the twins’ joke shop, Walburga and Sirius’ Gryffindor attitude, and so forth.
I would quibble that Neville was growing into a hero even with his father’s wand – he was certainly a hero at the Battle of DoM, secondhand wand and all!
If, as you posit, Voldy was so anti-body (Lord Vaccimort?), why was he so concerned about regaining one?
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Kudos for making me sympathise with Wormtail and Petunia as reluctant parents who just need a day off!
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It continues to amaze me that so many of the characters in the series have unresolved issues/traumas relating to one event (Halloween ’81). Whether it’s betrayal and loss, interpersonal conflicts that can never be resolved, or just a wierd obsession with killing this one kid, so many characters were broken that night and (often due to subsequent stresses, like being in prison, having two toddlers in the house, being reduced to “less than the meanest ghost”, or having to teach dunderheads) have never put themselves back together.
I think Voldy was concerned with regaining a body as a way of regaining other things – life, power, the ability to use a wand. He never seems to care about bodies for the things they actually do – sex, food, etc.
Seconded! And all the more reason they should have ended up together romantically as part of a mutual redemption, and/or have had a romantic past that resulted in a secret love-child or two (Piers Polkiss?).
And yes, Halloween ’81 really is one of those days that kinda broke everyone it touched. As the Arrowverse would say, it’s a fixed point – one that’s so consequential and shapes so many lives, it’s impossible to imagine the current world without it. (It’s also why I think the “What If Voldemort Never Attacked the Potters?” hypotheticals aren’t very practical – nothing about the wizarding world would be the way it is without that moment!)
10 points to Rravenclaw for that antibody joke
Just wanna say that I agree with Sophia on almost everything throughout the episode – everytime I was about to start yelling at my smartphone, she’d just bring up the point I was thinking!
One area of divergence though – I never thought that Vernon blamed Petunia for them keeping Harry. My reading of it was not that Vernon was convinced so much as that he deferred to Petunia in the matter of taking in Harry. “Your sister, your nephew, your mess… and you’ll be the one staying at home and raising him either way, so up to you.” There never seemed to be an undercurrent of resentment or blame to Vernon’s comments about chucking Harry in an orphanage – more like, “If it were up to me, but it’s not, so whatevs.”
If anything, I always thought that among Vernon’s (nearly nonexistent) virtues was the way he supported Petunia. He doesn’t want to upset her in the first chapter, he consults with her about the Letters From No One, and he doesn’t really argue with her decisions about keeping Harry under their roof (ie. in Dudley Demented). He has his lane – earning money mainly, and protecting the family with shotguns and poorly-thought-out trips to huts on rocks – and she has hers, which includes all things domestic and Harry-related. They’re actually a quite effective family unit, aside from how they treat their kids.
Do we think Petunia kept her sister’s magic a secret from Vernon until Harry arrived? Because I think it would make a difference in whether or not he had an opinion. As far as I’m aware, she could’ve hidden this from Vernon even while raising Harry through infancy and toddlerhood
Doesn’t the start of Philosopher’s Stone (from Vernon’s perspective) heavily imply he’s aware of it (otherwise why would he react to owls)? Never says “magic” or “wizards”, but that seems more for the purpose of building suspense.
Oh yeah, you’re right you’re right. I didn’t think to check the narration from that first chapter. “The Dursleys had everything they wanted, but they also had a secret, and their greatest fear was that somebody would discover it. They didn’t think they could bear it if anyone found out about the Potters.”
If you go by other material that has been released outside of canon, we do know Vernon met Harry’s parents, so I’d assume he was told about magic at the latest before that meeting.
Indeed – the Pottermore piece on the Dursleys (which is one of the better things on Pottermore) talks about this, about how Petunia told Vernon all about her family’s deep dark secret, and his sympathetic and understanding reaction greatly endeared him to her.
Brilliant note to end on – all mothers are great, whether biological or not!
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Especially as the author has openly stated that the loss of her own mother had a big impact on the series, it’s also worth considering the different attitudes that characters have towards their mothers (or mother-figures).
Of particular note is the main conflict of the series that covers the range of feelings one can wrestle with for a lost loved one. But ultimately, Harry (who respects – somewhat idealises – and misses his mother) wins out over Voldemort (who resents his mother for not being there).
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