Join hosts Ev, Irvin, and Sierra, for our annual Valentine’s tradition of discussing fandom’s favorite ships: we dish on Draco Malfoy’s love life and potential pairings from the Harry Potter fandom.
In this episode:
- Draco would look great in a periwinkle blue dress!
- Ev gets a Fanfiction Theory Godmother
- In Draco’s love life, the Grass is always Greener
- We get Ginny’s Valentine for Draco
- Draco is a secret fan of Madam Puddifoot’s
- Who’s going to tickle this sleeping dragon?
- Any other Weasley!
- Canon but Nott
- The only rock bottom we want to hit
- Drapple, IYKYK
Resources/Fanfiction: Draco Malfoy and the Goblet of Fire by AllWordsAreMagic
Pub’s Jukebox: Draco Malfoy by Swish & Flick
Fair warning, not a “ship” comment. While the hosts discussed the relative intelligence of Draco compared to Harry and Hermione, it reminded me of the OWLs conundrum of how Hermione needed time turner to get her 10 OWLs, but other students (Barty Crouch Jr., Bill, and Percy) got 12. Did they have time turners? I don’t know if this theory has ever been proposed, but I thought of an alternative.
It is assumed that you must take the class at Hogwarts to be able to take the OWL exam, but if that isn’t true, then it makes it a lot more plausible for 12 OWLs with no time turner. There is not any textual evidence that contradicts that a student can take an OWL exam if they didn’t take the class. Granted, passing said exam would be difficult, and likely a waste of time if one didn’t take the class. But it’s possible if the student is truly gifted or studied the subject on their own. For instance, i can’t see anyone telling a 15-year-old Dumbledore that he couldn’t get an OWL in a subject just because he didn’t take the class. I think its reasonable to conclude that the students listed previously likely took this route as well.
Finally, the question that must be answered is why Hermione didn’t take this option. Well, to me, that is clear. Hermione wouldn’t even consider going into the first day of class without being fully prepared, so sitting for an exam on a subject she didn’t take would be out of the question. Textual support for this comes in the form of Hermione reading all her textbooks before the year even starts (think Lockhart’s quiz and her repeating verbatim text in Umbridge’s first class) and how appalled she is when Harry uses the HBP’s potions book instead of the “official” instructions. I can see the conversation with McGonagall in my head now. Her telling Hermione that she can study on her own and take all the OWLs her little heart desires, but Hermione almost having a nervous breakdown at the very thought of such an atrocity. This would then justify the “extreme circumstances” that lead to a time turner being issued.
Again, sorry for the tangent, great episode 🙂
I’ve heard this proposed quite often, but I don’t think it eliminates the need for a time turner to make it work. Because when is someone supposed to study for those exams in addition to a full class load? It’s not like this is a language exam, where you can take it from having a native proficiency. Arithmancy and Ancient Runes are meant to be very difficult and complicated, Bill and Percy certainly wouldn’t learn adequate Muggle Studies at home. Even if one read Fantastic Beasts religiously, it seems like a subject where you’d want some hands on experience instead of seeing the creatures for the first time at the exam, though I’ll concede CoMC and Divination are the ones it might be possible to learn out of a book.
And there’s also the question of “why” beyond bragging rights. You need the OWL for the NEWT class, but what’s the rationale behind taking less classes at OWL level and more at NEWT? And they can’t all be required for careers – Bill doesn’t need any of the electives except Ancient Runes and CoMC, maybe give or take arithmancy.
As promised, the Dramione fics being turned into non-HP novels are:
The Auction – LovesBitca8 is becoming Rose in Chains
Manacled – senliyu is becoming Alchemised
I was thinking three previously because isthisselfcare, the author of Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love (aka DMATMOOBIL aka Batmobile) is coming out with a duology titled: The Irresistible Urge to Fall for Your Enemy, which is not a reconfiguring of Batmobile, but is a new work. There are other Dramione fic writers who have published other novels as well, separate from their body of fic work. What a time to be a fan!
It’s not a new phenomenon, nor – sadly – a guarantee of quality (Sturgeon’s Law and all that).
For example there’s the infamous Mortal Instruments/City of Bones series that started life as a Draco fanfic (though I think that was Draco/Ginny rather than Dramione).
The whole slow-burn-enemies-to-lovers romantasy seems to be hugely popular at the moment (things like “Fourth Wing” and “A Court of Thorns and Roses” get mentioned a lot).
So it sounds like we’re in agreement that Draco is always the bottom?
***
I’m still listening and have about 45 minutes left of the episode, but I find it interesting that no one really ships Draco with Crabbe or Goyle.
Finished the episode, and it did get a mention at the end. To clarify, I don’t “want” Draco shipped with Crabbe or Goyle, but I would think given in canon he spends so much time with them he would be shipped with them more.
I really like this idea of Nott being given the off page story of falling out of line with the Dark Lord’s ideals! I found myself wondering throughout Half Blood Prince why Nott was absent and Blaise Zabini was suddenly in, after not hearing about him really at all up to that point. (I think he was in Stone briefly, could be wrong.) Given how small Harry’s year at Hogwarts really was, I’m kind of surprised we don’t hear about every single student in Harry’s year at least to some degree. We hear about the same characters over and over, but there are a few more characters in Harry’s year we never hear about as discussed on a previous episode I believe!
Anyway, back to shipping. Personally I ship Tom Felton and NoNeedtoCallMeSirProfessor. I don’t ship Draco with anyone, though I do love the idea of a redemption arc for Draco. Oddly enough, I think Cursed Child might be the closest thing we get to a true redemption story for Draco..? It’s stated in the script that Harry and Draco saw each other for the first time as friends. I’m not sure it’s a good redemption mind you, but I do think it’s there.
I don’t think it’s so much a “not shipping Draco with Crabbe and Goyle” as it is “not shipping Crabbe and Goyle” whatsoever. Given that they seem to be dumb as a bunch of rocks, not conventionally attractive, and terrible people with almost no depth… you can see why almost no one thinks of them in a romantic context. (And as for a sexual context… I’ve only seen them in a distinctly nonromantic and nonconsensual setting.)
Yeah, we definitely do not need nonromantic or nonconsensual settings in our fanfictions, thank you very much. Crabbe can stay dead and Goyle can…idk stay dumb?
Glad you appreciate the whole off-page story about Nott – the more I double down on analyzing Death Eaters, the more into it I am!
I agree, and it’s the biggest point in favor of the overblown Harry-is-oblivious theory. I was on the phone yesterday and it turned out I can still rattle off the 34 students of my middle school class in alphabetical order. And I was Class of ’06 with only three years there. The fact that in Harry’s fifth year, of living with these people, in a year of 40 students… him not knowing someone’s name boggles the mind.
I too find the “Harry is oblivious” theory entirely overdone as well as the comments about how he uses five spells throughout the books. My boy Harry is not an idiot, he’s a typical teenager who puts studies second. Despite this, he still manages to outperform Hermione in arguably the most important subject taught at Hogwarts.
In fact, I think there’s an argument to be had that Harry is the second best in his year. Ernie and Draco would be the other two that come to mind right away, but we don’t know how well they did at OWL’s, and we really don’t know Ernie well at all other than he’s pompous. Certainly, by the time Half Blood Prince comes around, he’s earned that title between his Potions prowess (not that anyone besides the golden trio knows about the book) and DADA skills despite a teacher who has it out for him that year.
Nah, Harry’s not oblivious. For one reason or another, the decision was made to focus on only a handful of characters rather than letting everyone get “their fair turn”. From an author’s perspective, Jo was well within her rights to do so, but I do wish she had just cut some of the other minor characters to give everyone a chance to shine. I can understand not giving everyone older or younger than Harry a moment in the books of course, but really everyone in Harry’s year should have had at least a scene with 2-3 lines minimum throughout the series. This was 100% the author’s decision, intentional or not, and unfortunately my boy Harry gets a raw deal from it.
Okay, I definitely wouldn’t go so far as to say Harry is anywhere near the top of his year. He has natural talent at one subject (where students without are at a huge disadvantage given the crappy teachers they usually have). He is solid in Potions, though note that ten students get an O in the Potions OWL including Draco and Ernie. He is otherwise good in the subjects where he has a good teacher. But calling him the best student because of his DADA prowess is like saying Neville is one of the best students because he’s good at Herbology. What makes Hermione so superlative is that she’s good at *every* subject, though slightly less so at one of ten.
I don’t fault Jo for not giving every classmate of Harry’s a speaking role – I can certainly say that of those 34 classmates of mine, there’s a handful I’ve probably never said more than two words to, and more who are in no way relevant to my life story. I do fault her for passages like the Hog’s Head meeting where the narration says he had no idea who Susan Bones was. I think she could have very plausibly written “And then walked in a trio of Hufflepuff girls that Harry recognized from Herbology as Susan, Hannah, and Megan. He’d never interacted with them much.”
Very good points, though I stand by my statement that Harry is in the top 3-ish of his class. Keep in mind that’s not saying much. Neville, Ron, Dean, and Seamus would mean by default he’s the top Gryffindor boy in his year. I am reasonably confident you’ll agree with me that Harry outperformed Ron and Neville every year in every subject. We don’t know enough about Dean or Seamus to make the argument one way or the other I guess, other than we don’t see either of them in Potions.
The difference between Harry and Neville is Neville is rubbish at multiple subjects that matter, as we see him struggle not only in Potions but Transfiguration, DADA, flying (I know this isn’t technically a subject after first year, though it’s still part of being a wizard) and Charms. (He and Harry are the only two given homework in Charms after failing to master summoning in GoF.) Harry also struggled with that particular charm, but summoning is one of the things Harry grows to do exceptionally well and later on banishes objects without much effort. That, and Harry had A LOT going on during that lesson. Even Hermione has been seen to get frazzled with outside influences.
History of Magic and Divination are the two subjects Harry failed to pass at OWL level. I am 100% certain Harry would have passed History of Magic if he had had an engaging teacher in the subject. He even says as much in the narrative at one point, I’d have to look where exactly. I am less certain about Divination, though could entertain the idea that had Firenze been the teacher in the first place more students would have earned the required grade to earn the OWL.
Putting those two subjects aside because let’s be honest, they really don’t matter much. Throughout the narrative, Harry is seen to be great at DADA, Potions, Charms, and flying. He’s at least good enough to earn an OWL (and presumably a NEWT) in Herbology and Transfiguration. Obviously Hermione outdoes him, Ron, Draco, and Ernie may or may not be on his level. Who else would be a contender?
Susan Bones, Oliver Rivers, Terry Boot, Michael Corner, Blaise Zabini, Theodore Nott, Daphne Greengrass, Sally-Anne Perks, Padma Patil… you get my point.
Harry outperformed Ron in exactly one subject – DADA. Otherwise, I believe their grades were nearly identical. Ron must’ve gotten the same E’s as Harry in all the core subjects, since they are in NEWT classes together.
And Harry’s “prowess” at Potions is because he is using better recipes than everyone else! One can hardly credit him being an outstanding student to that. At least ten students out of forty did better than him at the OWL.
So Harry is a natural flyer (not a subject), and superlative in DADA. Otherwise, he seems to be a reasonably good student in most subjects – certainly not below average, but nothing to indicate he’s far above average.
I think we’ll end up agreeing to disagree on this one lol. But I’ll contend a few of your points and then I’ll drop it. 🙂
Michael Corner is heavily implied by Ginny (who dated him) to be something of an idiot. I believe it’s in OotP when he comes over to ask them about DA lessons after Umbridge’s decree.
I read these books way too much.Zabini is also implied to have no talent beyond his mother when he is invited into the Slug Club, though I believe Harry is the one telling us this so we can take it with a grain of salt. If Padma is anything like her twin sister…I can promise you Harry did better. If any of the others were anywhere near the top of their year, surely, we would’ve heard about them beyond Harry not knowing Susan’s name in OotP? None of them are in the Slug Club in HBP (aside from Zabini), none of them are prefects, none of them are apparently present in the Battle of Hogwarts. I really don’t see any of them being more extraordinary than Harry, Ron or Hermione.We don’t know that 10/40 students necessarily got O’s on their Potions OWL. (Side note: Snape’s requirement is absolutely ridiculous and how he was able to get away with not accepting E students into NEWT-level Potions classes is beyond me, Dumbledore. Also, why did he then allow E-achieving students Ron and Hermione into NEWT-level DADA classes? Was this Dumbledore telling him he had to, was this Snape being euphoric about finally getting his dream job?) Anyway, it is entirely possible more students than just Harry and Ron assumed they couldn’t get into the Potions class and were later told by their Head of House that Slughorn would accept them–especially a number as small as 10.
To end, Harry did (supposedly) become an Auror, and we are told by both Barty Jr. and McGonagall that they don’t take anything less than the best. Also…real talk. Could any of those other students do all the things Harry did, go through all the things Harry went through, and still earn those kinds of grades?
I dunno, how many spicy fanfics are there of this pairing?
True. One of the only redeemable parts of CC is Draco, I think they actually did a decent job with him. (Not great by any means… but passable, which is more than can be said of literally any other character from the books.) I suppose even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Don’t tempt me, Irvin. I am a published author and
desperately needs to work on updating itwriter of the popular fanfiction, “No Parting of the Ways”. I don’t need to add another fan fiction to the list. Why did no one ship Draco with Fudge, Scrimgeour, or Umbridge?! (Just kidding, please don’t do that. Lol Lucius maybe. Lucius x Fudge anyone?)Consider this your official tempting! Make it happen!
HA! I dunno that we’re in agreement on “always”… but I’d say more often than not.
Joking aside, is there a conversation to be had here? Lol. My comments might be too much for this platform, I can’t promise I can keep my questions PG-13.
Eh, I’d say a soft R rating is fine!
A comment on “ships” in general (aka “whatever floats your boat”).
My impression is that there are two main reasons behind ships (as in ‘why this particular person likes this particular ship’); the most obvious being that they like these two (or more) characters and want them to be together.
Alternatively, they like a character (Draco, for example) and want them to have a romance, and the partner(s) are chosen more for how they fit with the desired narrative. Hence the popularity of background, blank-slate characters who can be made to fit into whatever role is desired.
(For example, ‘enemies to lovers’? Hermione or Harry is the obvious choice.)
I suspect the reason Draco/OFC beats Draco/Astoria is that the OFC is a complete outsider (e.g. went to a different school, maybe even a muggle if you’re going that route); someone that Draco has no history/baggage with, giving him a fresh start.
That makes a good deal of sense. I guess for me, the interest was usually in how two people mesh together, not just one character and one cardboard cutout, so I was never that into original characters. (The preponderance of Mary Sues didn’t help.)
I also find original characters a little more perplexing in HP just because it’s such a colossal cast of characters. Like, if you’re looking at most books/series/whatever, you’ll have maybe half a dozen core characters and then ten to twenty walk-on roles, so I can see how there might not be a character to fit whatever is required for a character or narrative one is into. In HP, there’s just so much to work with!