Join hosts Aureo, Ev, and Sam and guest Karoline Oberlander as they discuss chapter 11 in the Harry Potter book series: Quidditch
In this episode:
- Toast! It’s what you give to your friends
- Why are Filch and Snape nice to each other?
- Wood is keeping everything secret
- Quidditch makes no sense
- Sam and Aurelia change Quidditch into basketball
- Harry furballs the snitch
- Can’t tell witch
The Pub’s Jukebox:
I remember having “cold builds character” teachers – being told off for putting our hands in our pockets while waiting outside the hall. It’s alright for the teachers in their heavy skirts and cardigans; we’re freezing our knobbly knees off in short trousers!
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Harry’s being realistic in his interactions with teachers (he’s probably had prior experience): give them a chance to be reasonable, but have backup. Sadly, Snape continues to live down to expectations.
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I have a vague memory of the Toast Marketing Board, I think from Jasper Fforde’s books.
That moment of giving Snape a chance really hit me hard this read through. I hadn’t realized Harry’s love and optimism was that shiny at the beginning of his interactions with Snape.
Harry’s always been a bit cynical (who can blame him?), but at least he’s a hopeful cynic.
Quidditch doesn’t need as many reserves because most injuries can be treated with the wave of a wand, and the player can resume. Even with Harry’s severe concussion (courtesy McLaggan), thanks to Madam Pomfrey he’s fine (once he wakes up, at least).
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Most vehicle-racing (Formula 1, for example) have pretty strict regulations for the vehicles (size, weight, fuel capacity, etc) to keep everyone on a relatively-even playing field. There are still plenty of cases where a team manages to innovate within those limits and has a very good season. (And the rules are probably updated for the next season.)
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In any sport, there are individual moments that seem important and dramatic, but are just part of a whole. The role of seeker seems designed to ensure some memorable moments do have a direct impact on the match’s outcome.
Any activity (a fight, a dance, a sports match) can tell a story: characters interact, learn, adapt, succeed/fail. But the writer has to actually be interested in the nuances of the activity in order to do that, and quidditch is clearly a token sport. All the interesting events are external to the sport itself.
For that last bit of that comment I think Quidditch does a great job of telling the Draco Harry story, which falls off a bit as quidditch disappears.
It is a good demonstration of their rivalry, but does anything change between them as a result of in-game events? Does the way they play tell us anything new about them?
(Genuine questions – I don’t see it, but you or others might have more insight)
I should have said “illustrating” Draco’s and Harry’s relationship. It shows us what they’re both like when the pressure is on, and gives Harry small victories. It also demonstrates the poor vs. rich subtext and how wealth doesn’t matter when it comes down to execution, but practice, skill and intuition are the biggest factors in the field.
It’s an outlet for their rivalry. Every book, they are grinding each other’s gears, but they very rarely actually do anything about it beyond Yo Momma jokes. It’s not like they compete for grades or anything, and they don’t really get into fights. So the only time we see them actually going at each other (give or take a Dueling Club) is the Quidditch matches, which serve as something of a pressure valve for their animosity.
I loved the discussion about Quidditch in the episode. I felt the discussion about fouls was very interesting and I agree with the need for a fouls system that keeps players from continously commiting fouls and to have levels of fouls (like flagrant fouls).
I think I have come up with a way to improve the game and solve some of the issues discussed throughout the podcast. At the very least, I think this would make Quidditch more fun to play and watch. Let me know what you think!
Note: this applies to the wizard version only, not muggle version.
Current problems with Quidditch:
1. Matches last either too long (days???) or not long enough (as discussed in the episode, like 5 mins in Harry’s second match)
2. Snitch is too valuable at 150 points (15x the value of a goal scored by a Chaser)
3. Seeker can avoid catching Snitch to allow his/her team to get within 150 points – aka extend the match to long – aka Seeker has too much effect on the outcome of the game compared to the other positions.
4.The seeker’s “stay out of the way” strategy until the snitch is spotted is boring.
How to fix:
1. Play without the Snitch for the first 30 minutes of play. This would primarily ensure each match lasts at least 30 mins. Ideally, in this situation, i would have the seeker not on the field during the first 30 mins of the game. Alternatively, teams could have the seeker play as a 4th chaser. This would also allow fans the opportunity watch the chasers, beaters, keeper exclusively. Not the intention of this rule, but it would also open up the possibility that if the seeker is injured, another chaser could be designated as the seeker when the snitch is released and the team could play with 2 chasers after that point.
2. Release the Snitch after the initial 30 minutes of play, for a maximum of 1 hour. This caps the match at 1 hour and 30 minutes of continuous play. It also still allows for traditional Quidditch to be played, with the seekers weaving in and out of the other players, the beaters needing to focus attention on the chasers, keeper, and seeker. It also lines up with time frame of other sporting events (think futbol, football, hockey, baseball, etc.). When the snitch is released, both seekers would either enter the game (in the scenario they have not played yet) or stop their chasing and turn their attention to seeking.
3. If the Snitch is caught, the game still ends. This ensures that Quidditch doesn’t lose the excitement of catching the Snitch. Again, the match will at least last 30 minutes, even if the snitch is caught immeditaely.
4. If the Snitch is not caught within 1 hour of being released, the game is over and the team with the most points wins. This provides a hard stop for the end of the match. It also provides the possibility that a seeker is not the most valuable player in every match.
5. The Snitch is worth more points the faster it is caught. See below for point details, but if the Snitch was worth a time dependent, decreasing amounts of points, it would keep the Chasers relevant throughout most games and it would lower the importance of the seekers over the other positions.
Snitch Points: 0-10 minutes (full 150 points), 11-20 minutes (100 points), 21-30 minutes (80 points), 31-40 minutes (70 points), 41-50 minutes (60 points), 51-60 minutes (50 points).
Good suggestions!
I feel like some tweaking is needed with the variable-value snitch. Sports benefit from a dramatic finish (last minute goals, hanging on while only just ahead, etc.), which catching the snitch certainly provides.
The reducing value makes it more likely that you’ll get situations like Ireland v. Bulgaria, where the winner is a foregone conclusion (as one team is too far behind for the snitch to matter). At least there you had the uncertainty of how much longer the game would last.
I don’t see this as a downside if I am honest. Some muggle sports games have one team dominating and it is just part of the sport. And I think it can still be a good experience watching because you often get to see a team play together on a whole different level which is always satisfying. (Admittedly more if you’re a fan of the winning team)
Completely agree, I’m just trying to think from the perpective of what’s good for promoting/popularising the sport as a whole rather than just entertaining the fans watching a given match.
Watching a dominant team is still exciting, but not as meaningful as a last-minute close finish, which can have fans endlessly talking about the match, what if such-and-such moment had gone differently, etc.
This has really given me a lot to think about with how the game is played! I’ve always known the rules are a little loosey-goosey when it comes to real world application (hence the changes in the IRL game), but I wasn’t sure how to go about fixing them “in HP world”. I think my favorite rule you state is that the Snitch is not released right away. It allows for that focus to be on the Chasers, Beaters, Keepers which, as you say, is valuable. Seekers can still come out and be the star of the show, but the other positions could have their time in the spotlight.
Do you have any suggestions on how the Beaters can be even better utilized? I would love for them to become more instrumental to the game instead of a mild hinderance to the flow of play.
I think the beaters are probably more than just a minor hindrance, but maybe I just always read that the Gryffindor team was very lucky to have the twins who happen to be excellent beaters.
Honestly, if I am thinking of the relations of how many bludgers to beaters they should have a significant impact. 6 chasers are trying to score with one ball and if you count in the 2 keepers that makes a total of 8 players primarily caring about the quaffle. Which is fine I think if we compare this to similar muggle sports. But then there are 4 beaters and 2 bludgers so really bludgers should be coming after players a lot.
Thank you everyone for the great discussion!
To answer the question above about the Beaters. IMO they serve an appropriate purpose in the current game setup and this newly proposed setup. You refer to them as a minor hinderance, but that’s not always the case, as we see bludgers can knock a player out of the game or severely inhibiting their abilities. In my mind I compare the Beaters to the linemen in American football. Rarely do they get the spotlight, but they are involved in every play and can change the game dramatically in the eyes of a well-seasoned fan. Just like a lineman can open a big hole for a running back, a beater can use a well-placed bludger to cause the keeper to leave a hoop open (when the Quaffle is in the scoring zone only of course!). Conversely, lineman can let a pass rusher get past them and result in a sack of the quarterback the same as a Beater could miss hit a bludger allowing the opposing team an easy goal.
I think we get a skewed version of the beaters’ importance because we view matches from the perspective of a Seeker, who isn’t as fussed with goals and such. Beaters would be essential from a Chaser’s or Keeper’s perspective, since they can make or break goals with a well-timed Bludger. Lee mentions this offhand occasionally – “Alicia dodges two Chasers, two Bludgers, and the Keeper…”
First, I have to say I love that you went into so much detail (especially as I read your user name as a Quidditch pun)!
I think the snitch point system could make Quidditch a lot more strategic, which I would still say the canon version really isn’t. But I picture a big clock in the arena and the current worth of the snitch next to it so fans and players (coaches?) alike can at least easily do the maths of what strategy to apply. Especially during a close game, this would then become very exciting. Thinking of strategies in basketball like “stop the clock” which is often played in those instances.
I also think it is a good idea to make sure the game lasts somewhere between 30-90 minutes which ensures fans get to see a game (which they may have paid a lot of money for!) and I like that this way the chasers and keepers get more focus during the first 30 minutes. This would also impact the game to become a little more strategic and could really mean you can still have a good chance at winning even if your opponent’s seeker has a professional grade broom during a school match…
I don’t find it hard to believe that Snape and Filch remain friends off-screen – we don’t really see them interacting one-on-one aside from the Egg and the Eye episode, but I think a shared hatred of children could be thing to bond over in perpetuity.
As for what Filch is doing for Dumbledore’s obstacle course – I think Filch punishes those who don’t make it through! If there are people who fail to make it through – for example, they lose the chess game, or can’t catch the flying key – he gets to string them up with his manacles and whip them to his heart’s content. That way he’s still included!
I loved the discussion of Hermione bringing Harry toast when he’s upset. It dovetails really nicely with something we’re discussing on Episode 24 (coming soon!) where Ron offers people hot beverages when they’re upset. I think it’s an interesting parallel, and one of the few commonalities between Ron and Hermione.
Basically, I’m just picturing how they join forces once they’re together, and every time Harry comes over after a rough day at work, they immediately sit him down with a stack of toast and a large cup of tea. It’s one of the most wholesome Ron/Hermione things I’ve thought of, and I hereby begin my campaign to rename the ship to “Tea & Toast.”
Lastly, there’s a bit of irony in how Hermione is the one offering food and Ron’s offering drink, even though Ron is so much more identified with food and values it so highly. I’m guessing it’s because Ron can’t really offer food, since he always had Molly or house-elves cooking for him, but it’s curious nonetheless.
Re: there being so much to watch in Quidditch – that’s what makes it good to watch. Muggle Quidditch is a fantastic spectator sport because there’s so much going on, so it’s interesting to look at, and especially to watch with friends. Other muggle sports are boring AF – I tried watching a soccer game, and nothing was happening, just a ton of people running after one ball to and fro. The wizards know what’s up when it comes to Quidditch (admittedly, less so at staging entertaining tournament tasks)